Lucky- version 1.2

Kak bi mnogie togo ne xoteli-iz sovremennoy z.dnoy civilizacii, i iz USA v chastnosti, ne udastsya sdelat impotentov ,kotorix mojet traxat' luboy usatiy podonok. Poka Saddam zhiv-budet litsya krov.

Ya dumayu ti doljen ubrat eto foto. Ne nado ustraivat sorevnovanie na temu kto razmestit bolee strashnoe foto. Uverayu tebya,zhertvi ximicheskix atak Saddama toje viglyadeli ujasno. Davay bez lishnix emociy.

Che- znachit kommunyagi Von v Irake millioni rabov- etix s*annix socialistov eto volnuet?

Я не знаю панации, способной избавить мир от Саддама. И, как кажется, теперь и от Буша. O chem ti govorish? Busha mogut pereizbrat cherez god. Ti i etogo ne znala? A pro maksimum 2 kadencii dlya amerikanskix prezidentov ti toje ne slishala? Eto nazivaetsya ''demokratiya'' ,Lana. A pri demokratii otdelnie lichnosti znachat krayne malo.

Perevedu otdelnie mesta: Human rights groups estimate that at least 290,000 Iraqis have disappeared since Saddam took power 34 years ago. Po ocenkam pravozashitnix organizaciy- 290.000 irakcev ischezlo za 34 goda pravleniya Saddama. And if a man is a dissident or if a man writes a letter or makes a joke about Saddam, these women said, authorities would rape his wife or female relatives in front of him. Esli chelovek pisal pismo protiv Saddama ili shutil v ego adres -vlasti nasilovali ego zhenu pered nim i ego rodney. Al-Suwaij has seen the inside of an Iraqi prison, and she describes horrific scenes. She said she was shown "human meat grinders" in which people were shredded and disposed of in a septic tank, and chemical baths in which people were literally dissolved. Al-Suwaij (odna iz zhenshin svidetelnic) bila v irakskoy turme i opisivaet strashnie sceni. Ona govorit chto ey pokazali tam '' mashini kotorimi tolkli ludskoe mjaso''- posle chego ego rastvoryali v ximicheskix vannax. The anti-war demonstrations happening all over the world are disturbing for these women. Rasool believes the protesters are missing the point. "Knowing what we've been through, knowing what the people in Iraq are going through up to now, and then when we see protesters, that they don't know the reality of the people who are suffering right now," she said. "They don't know about torture, they don't know about rape." Antivoennie demonstracii kotorie proisxodyat po vsemu miru bespokoyat etix zhenshin. Rasool schitaet chto demonstranti upuskayut samoe vajnoe. '' Znaya chto s nami bilo,znaya cherez chto proxodyat ludi Iraka a potom videt eti protesti po vsemu miru-mi ponimaem chto eto vse ludi kotorie ponatiya ne imeyut o realiyax i stradaniyax naroda v Irake. Oni ne znayu chto takoe pitki,oni ne znayut chto takoe iznasilovanie'' Perevod priblizitelniy...

Lana- eto rossiyskiy sayt. A v Rossii ninche dve tendencii- xolopskaya i postsovetskaya. Ne znayu Lana,chitaesh li ti po angliyski ,no ya bi posovetoval tebe prochest vot eto: The four women — Maha Hussain, Zainab al-Suwaij, Katrin Michael and Roz Rasool — told ABCNEWS' Barbara Walters stories that could be punishable by death in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Even Iraqis in the United States are terrified to speak frankly about Saddam's regime, largely because they are terrified of reprisals against family members. The women are speaking out because they feel they are speaking for the voiceless people living under Saddam's regime. "We know how it looks like inside Iraq," al-Suwaij said on 20/20. "We saw the torture. We saw our relatives and our friends disappearing day after -" Human rights groups estimate that at least 290,000 Iraqis have disappeared since Saddam took power 34 years ago. Hussain was just a schoolgirl in Baghdad when the reality of life under Saddam hit home. She recalls riding on a school bus at age 13 and seeing a crowd gathered in the center of the capital, around bodies of men hanging from poles. "I remember the blue faces, the long necks," she said. Saddam's reign of terror extended far beyond public executions. He established a strategy of brutalizing women in order to control their men. Although the stories these women tell are horrific and difficult to substantiate, they are consistent with a pattern of cruelty toward women documented by various human rights groups. Routine Rapes, Human Meat Grinders, Chemical Baths Al-Suwaij knows firsthand how even young girls were imprisoned for what seem to be trivial offenses. Al-Suwaij says she had a 16-year-old cousin who was beaten and tortured with electrical shocks for having written something against the government in her school notebook. And if a man is a dissident or if a man writes a letter or makes a joke about Saddam, these women said, authorities would rape his wife or female relatives in front of him. "Rape is used as a tool to humiliate the woman, but to also bring men into submission," Hussain said. To compound the humiliation, authorities would videotape the torture and rape and send the tape to family members. Saddam's contempt for human rights extended to his well-documented use of poison gas against his own people. The horror of one of those chemical attacks still haunts Michael 16 years later. "Children, women, men … vomiting, screaming, crying with swollen eyes. Everybody was … screaming, 'We are blind. We cannot see,' " Michael said. She said she still has difficulty breathing, because of her exposure to the gas. Al-Suwaij has seen the inside of an Iraqi prison, and she describes horrific scenes. She said she was shown "human meat grinders" in which people were shredded and disposed of in a septic tank, and chemical baths in which people were literally dissolved. "You cannot exaggerate about these things. People were slaughtered," she said. All four women met earlier this month with members of the Bush administration. They raised the issues they feel need to be addressed in Iraq. They say there needs to be a clear commitment to democracy in Iraq, and that the United States and its allies will need to chaperon the transition. Protesters Missing the Point The anti-war demonstrations happening all over the world are disturbing for these women. Rasool believes the protesters are missing the point. "Knowing what we've been through, knowing what the people in Iraq are going through up to now, and then when we see protesters, that they don't know the reality of the people who are suffering right now," she said. "They don't know about torture, they don't know about rape." Although these women support U.S. military action, they say they felt betrayed after the 1991 Gulf War when they heeded then-President George H.W. Bush's call to arms. The elder Bush said Iraqis must rise up on their own and force Saddam to step aside. So these women joined with many other Iraqis who risked their lives because they thought that the Americans were going to back them up. "That was the first time I saw Iraq liberated. I saw the joy and the happiness of the people," al-Suwaij said. But the uprising was short-lived. The allied army went home, clearing the way for Saddam to regain control. It is estimated that 30,000 Iraqis perished in the ensuing bloodbath. "After the failed uprising I was hiding for two months until I left Iraq," said al-Suwaij. These women are saddened that America and its allies backed off and let Saddam continue his brutal reign after the 1991 war. They ask, Where was the United Nations then? Where were all these human rights activists? Where are they today? the women ask. Just two weeks ago, a Kurdish mother of eight was splashed with gasoline and set ablaze by military police for no reason, she told Kurdish television. "We're asking the, the whole world, to see our suffering inside Iraq. We ask them to participate in our freedom and liberty," Rasool said. "Iraqi people suffered enough during 35 years, and they deserve freedom." As U.S. and British troops advance toward Baghdad, these women say their friends and loved ones will welcome the coalition troops with open arms. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/...omen030321.html[/url]

Lana- ti ne dumaesh chto pust uj v mire carit ideologiya lubyashix ,obojayushix zoloto ludey ,chem ideologiya unichtojeniya vo imya chego to? Ne etomu li nauchil nas ves opit proshedshego veka? Net bolshe zla ludyam chem ot ideologiy vsyakogo tolka. Esli ti znaesh sposob ubrat Saddama beskrovno- rasskaji kak. No tolko uchti-esli ego ne ubrat-krovi i trupov budet gorazdo bolshe. Eto kak operaciya po udaleniu opuxoli.Bez krovi ne bivaet. Ne vse vrachi-Gitleri,Lana.

Lana-ti predlagaesh mne rasskazat tebe pro podvigi Gitlera? Potomu kak ti ili pritvoryaeshsya ili na samom dele ne ponimaesh chto takoe sravnenie kosh'unstvenno. Znaesh li ti chto za ideologiya bila u Gitlera? Eto bila rasovaya ideologiya-kogda nekotorie nacii bili provozglasheni vishimi ,nekotorie nizshimi,a nekotorie voobshe dostoynimi unichtojeniya. I unichtojalis, Lana! Nikogda eshe v istorii chelovechestva ludey ne unichtojali v takom kolichestve,tak zhestoko i po edinstvennoy prichine-za ix proisxojdenie. Predstavlaesh li ti sebe sognannix v gazovuyu kameru millioni nevinnix ludey,zhenshin,detey ? Znaesh li ti chto eto takoe bit ubitim, kaznennim,zadushennim za svoe proisxojdenie? Sushestvuyut li bolee nevinnie zhertvi chem eti zhertvi? A ved imenno etu ideologiyu ti stavila v plus Gitleru pri sravnenii s Bushem,Lana. ''Я как раз и указала, что у Гитлера была какая-никакая, но идеология.'' ''Для меня имя президента нападающей страны, словно имя Гитлера... Даже хуже. У Гитлера была безумная, но идеология.'' A Saddama nado ubrat. Potomu chto eto i est Gitler. Malenkiy Gitler ,no so vse toy maniey velichiya i vse toy je nenavistyu k ludyam.

Skoro nastoyash'ego-vot tak je...

Ругался на тебя, Лана? Хотя ест' много людей, Лана, которые действительно могли бы и заругат'ся за подобное сравнение. Гитлер загубил миллиони людей. Много миллионов , Лана. И сравнивать Буша с ним-это означает не только и не столько несправедливо очернять Буша, сколько представлять Гитлера гораздо лучшим чем он был на самом деле.

V civilizovannoy strane avtora podobnoy figni privlekli bi k sudu. No Rossii eshe daleko do civilizovannosti. A esli bez emociy- ochen tupoi,poshliy yumor. Gazeta.ru,odnim slovom.

Vot ob etom ya i govoril na teme pro Irak- vse eti gazeta.ru , dni.ru, lenta.ru i.t.p.- eto vse fuflo,a ne jurnalistika. I delat ottuda copy-paste ,po kakoi libo teme, eto priznak durnogo vkusa.

Filin-ya zapugan...Pryamo kak amerikanskaya armiya ugrozami Saddama. Tebe toje ne sovetuyu delat copy s tupix russkix saytov- schitay eto moim preduprejdeniem.

Funky- esli ot kogo to i mojno uslishat pravdu to tolko ot amerikancev. Ot russkix i arabov ee ne uslishish-rabami bili rabami i ostalis.

Nedostaet tolko pisma etix je ludey k lideru civilizivannogo chelovechestva Sadamu Husseinu Ibn Despotu ,s virajeniem lubvi i blagodarnosti.

Vot eto tipichnaya statya dlya russkix saytov v eti dni. Napisana kakim to amerikanofobom ,no pri etom pretenduet na reporterskuyu obyektivnost. ''Администрация Белого дома пребывает в полной растерянности. '' ''Американские войска, передает Ирак.ру, были остановлены огнем противотанкового ракетного комплекса советского производства "Малютка-2" '' - malyutka ponimaesh li...lol ''Получилась настоящая война, с кровью и большими потерями.'' ''По имеющейся у нас информации, потери американской колонны достигают нескольких сот солдат и офицеров''- u kogo eto u nas? U jurnalyug alkogolikov? lol Koroche polnaya chush napisanaya kakim to mayorom KGB v otstavke. Ostaetsya tolko poprosit Filina bit pobrezglivee v budushem pri copy/paste s russkix saytov.

Interesnaya logika,Lana. Znachit k Saddamu ,kotoriy za godi svoego pravleniya zagubil sotni tisyach irakcev,k saddamu kotoriy ispolzoval ximicheskoe orujie dlya podderjaniya svoey vlasti,k saddamu kotoriy ugrojaet vsemu civiizovannomu chelovechestvu-k nemu ti otnosishsya nikak. A vot glazki Busha sdelali svoe delo. I nevajno chto voinu Bush nachal protiv etogo samogo Saddama. Serdcu jenskomu ne prikajesh. Vot ti vse govorish pro kakie to dengi. A ya tebe tak skaju- i dengi toje. Ekonomika i politika svyazani,Lana. I v etom ti prava. Tolko ya ne viju v etom nichego ploxogo. U amerikancev svoi politicheskie i ekonomicheskie interesi- i oni ix otstaivayut.

Vot chitayu seychas rossiyskie novostnie sayti i divu dayus. Nu otsutstvie jurnalistskogo professionalizma-eto ladno,k etomu uje privik. No chto za idiotskaya predvzyatost virajayushayasya v tupix frazax tipa 'irakci poxoronyat amerikancev' ili 'amerikanskaya voennaya mashina daet sboy' itp...Srazu vspominaesh dalekie godi sovetskogo pravleniya. Vidat' zdorovo togda mozgi propoloskali ludyam esli oni do six por ne otmilis...

to Soul: Ya zanyalsya bi eksportom.

Izvini Lana,no ya prochel. V sled. raz pishi v nachale teksta chitat mne ili net Teper po teme. Dorogaya i mnogouvajaemaya Lana, Sravnenie Busha s Gitlerom nepozvolitelno. I ti kak civilizovanniy chelovek doljna eto ponimat. Neujeli ti ne ponimaesh chto Bush ne yavlaetsya vojdem i ideologom amerikanskoy nacii napodobie Gitlera ili Saddama? Bush-eto prezident USA izbranniy na 4 goda i tu politiku kotoruyu on segodnya provodit podderjivaet 80% amerikancev. Oni vse toje xuje Gitlera-eti amerikanci? Dalee...Uvajaemaya Lana-a kak ti otnosishsya k Saddamu i ego rejimu? Ne schitaesh li ti chto v tot den kogda rejim Saddama obzavedetsya naprimer yadernim orujiem on pustit ego v xod bez osobix razdumiy? Ne pugaet li tebya podobnaya perspektiva? Ili ostatki sovetskogo mentaliteta nastolko zatumanili umi sovremennix rossiyan chto oni uje ne mogut razlichit chto 'ploxo', a chto 'xorosho' ? Po starinke prodoljat perechit shtatam- ne glupo li eto?

Net ,eto ne moi etalon,a skoree nedostayushiy tebe minimum

The four women — Maha Hussain, Zainab al-Suwaij, Katrin Michael and Roz Rasool — told ABCNEWS' Barbara Walters stories that could be punishable by death in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Even Iraqis in the United States are terrified to speak frankly about Saddam's regime, largely because they are terrified of reprisals against family members. The women are speaking out because they feel they are speaking for the voiceless people living under Saddam's regime. "We know how it looks like inside Iraq," al-Suwaij said on 20/20. "We saw the torture. We saw our relatives and our friends disappearing day after -" Human rights groups estimate that at least 290,000 Iraqis have disappeared since Saddam took power 34 years ago. Hussain was just a schoolgirl in Baghdad when the reality of life under Saddam hit home. She recalls riding on a school bus at age 13 and seeing a crowd gathered in the center of the capital, around bodies of men hanging from poles. "I remember the blue faces, the long necks," she said. Saddam's reign of terror extended far beyond public executions. He established a strategy of brutalizing women in order to control their men. Although the stories these women tell are horrific and difficult to substantiate, they are consistent with a pattern of cruelty toward women documented by various human rights groups. Routine Rapes, Human Meat Grinders, Chemical Baths Al-Suwaij knows firsthand how even young girls were imprisoned for what seem to be trivial offenses. Al-Suwaij says she had a 16-year-old cousin who was beaten and tortured with electrical shocks for having written something against the government in her school notebook. And if a man is a dissident or if a man writes a letter or makes a joke about Saddam, these women said, authorities would rape his wife or female relatives in front of him. "Rape is used as a tool to humiliate the woman, but to also bring men into submission," Hussain said. To compound the humiliation, authorities would videotape the torture and rape and send the tape to family members. Saddam's contempt for human rights extended to his well-documented use of poison gas against his own people. The horror of one of those chemical attacks still haunts Michael 16 years later. "Children, women, men … vomiting, screaming, crying with swollen eyes. Everybody was … screaming, 'We are blind. We cannot see,' " Michael said. She said she still has difficulty breathing, because of her exposure to the gas. Al-Suwaij has seen the inside of an Iraqi prison, and she describes horrific scenes. She said she was shown "human meat grinders" in which people were shredded and disposed of in a septic tank, and chemical baths in which people were literally dissolved. "You cannot exaggerate about these things. People were slaughtered," she said. All four women met earlier this month with members of the Bush administration. They raised the issues they feel need to be addressed in Iraq. They say there needs to be a clear commitment to democracy in Iraq, and that the United States and its allies will need to chaperon the transition. Protesters Missing the Point The anti-war demonstrations happening all over the world are disturbing for these women. Rasool believes the protesters are missing the point. "Knowing what we've been through, knowing what the people in Iraq are going through up to now, and then when we see protesters, that they don't know the reality of the people who are suffering right now," she said. "They don't know about torture, they don't know about rape." Although these women support U.S. military action, they say they felt betrayed after the 1991 Gulf War when they heeded then-President George H.W. Bush's call to arms. The elder Bush said Iraqis must rise up on their own and force Saddam to step aside. So these women joined with many other Iraqis who risked their lives because they thought that the Americans were going to back them up. "That was the first time I saw Iraq liberated. I saw the joy and the happiness of the people," al-Suwaij said. But the uprising was short-lived. The allied army went home, clearing the way for Saddam to regain control. It is estimated that 30,000 Iraqis perished in the ensuing bloodbath. "After the failed uprising I was hiding for two months until I left Iraq," said al-Suwaij. These women are saddened that America and its allies backed off and let Saddam continue his brutal reign after the 1991 war. They ask, Where was the United Nations then? Where were all these human rights activists? Where are they today? the women ask. Just two weeks ago, a Kurdish mother of eight was splashed with gasoline and set ablaze by military police for no reason, she told Kurdish television. "We're asking the, the whole world, to see our suffering inside Iraq. We ask them to participate in our freedom and liberty," Rasool said. "Iraqi people suffered enough during 35 years, and they deserve freedom." As U.S. and British troops advance toward Baghdad, these women say their friends and loved ones will welcome the coalition troops with open arms. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/...omen030321.html

Spasibo Tota, Esli eto vse chto ti mojesh skazat po teme, to mogu tebya obnadejit- esli ti vozmesh sebe mozgi Busha to, vozmojno, nauchishsya vesti bolee tolkovuyu diskussiu.

hey-xvatit trepatsya uje...looool

to Funky--- koroche vse xoroshee bilo pri talibanax. Osobenno zhenshinam bilo xorosho. Tolko v kakom posolstve rabotaet ego 'xoroshiy znakomiy'? uchti chto u takix kak on mnogo 'xoroshix znakomix'- odni posli da biznessmeni. I platyat vse valutoy...